tv [untitled] October 11, 2011 8:01pm-8:31pm EDT
right now when i see cross talk with peter about. whether the spring can be followed by an american one and all the protests can change in the u.s. . anything. below and welcome to cross talk and peter lavelle call it what you wish a major political tipping point or woodstock without music in respect of the occupy wall street demonstrations continue to find traction all across the u.s. can these days of rage be translated into meaningful political change. anything.
to cross talk the occupy wall street movement i'm joined by jason del gandow in philadelphia he's an assistant professor of rhetoric and public advocacy at temple university and author of rhetoric for radicals a handbook for twenty first century activists in washington we have kevin zeese he's a political activist and one of the organizers of october two thousand and eleven dot org and in los angeles we cross to tony katz he's a tea party organizer and a radio talk show host gentlemen cross-talk rules in effect that means you can jump in anytime you want but first marcia to walk us through what's been going on at wall street well events are still unfolding peter and the dismal statistics that reveal a floundering u.s. economy the occupy wall street movement continues to gain momentum across the country and trying their fourth week the protests condemning corporate greed government inefficiency and growing income inequality have even earned the endorsement of president barack obama i think people are frustrated and.
the protesters are giving voice to a more broad based frustration about our financial system which what started as a rally against america's corrupt democratic process has turned into an organized collective called for social justice that employs the same tactics as its ideological alternative the tea party movement experts say it is now a force to be reckoned with with unions and a growing number of democrats now expressing at least qualified support for the protesters occupy wall street is starting to look like an important event but might even eventually be seen as a turning point with the u.s. unemployment rate hovering at nine point one percent and the growth rate just above one percent it is only reasonable that a populist movement should emerge to galvanize appropriate policy response but as president obama scrambles to pass his jobs bill and the labor department states that one hundred three thousand jobs were added in september this picture is still
bleak fourteen million americans officially unemployed more than two million of them have given up looking atop the jobs crisis propelling the movement is flagrant income inequality the washington post published an analysis showing that middle class income has dropped by ten percent since the one nine hundred seventy s. while executive pay has increased four fold and that pay is being driven further up by pure benchmarking all this means come re-election obama could be looking to preside over an economy teetering on recession set against the backdrop of a global economic meltdown a pretty frightening picture there peter thank you very much for that russia all right tony i'm going to go to you because i always go to the person that got up early is for this program so i thank you for being here tell me what you think is the spirit of the arab spring come to washington come to wall street or are the protesters just a bunch of anarchists. where's the difference the spirit of the arab spring is a violent violent action there's no way to look at the arab spring from the eyes of
the protesters or the eyes of the people putting down the protesters to say that it wasn't violence it was extremely violent extremely bloody it still is just take a look at syria if occupy wall street actually wants to identify itself as van jones has tried to do as the american autumn to go with the arab spring then yes indeed they're admitting like the reality that they are in favor of a violent violent action it's something we should all be very wary of ok kevin a lot of people let me jump in here. this is cross can i respond to that absolutely first of all the occupy wall the the occupy wall street social movement is nonviolence people have put out a declaration saying we we are committed to nonviolence there's been no acts of violence whatsoever and in terms of the connections between occupy wall street and they are spring there is a deep desire for democracy is actually representative of the people actually spawns to the once in needs of everyday people that is what this is about and to
clarify this social movement is targeting south of the border dominance right that is the key factor here corporate dominance and you say what is this corporate dominance we'll get some basic facts that's not in society you have forty million people there are employed what's not what's not the case tony it's not the dollars it's not the case when you have disclaimers on websites that say we want free college education we want to get paid even if we don't work those things have nothing to do with corporations those things have to do with a socialist or statist agenda you have to at least be honest about what is on the field and by the way when you allow yourselves when you allow yourself to be associated with van jones van jones is calling the calls for a connection to an arab spring just like michael moore is you're allowing yourself . to the truth he's not serious. and the continue. to respond is not hence. our los angeles girls is like fantasizing
a reality doesn't exist van jones is not part of the style movement he's a he's a democrat he believes in electing democrats the occupy movement is independent of both parties the obama's the obama and the democrats embrace as they're going to be very sad to see that where we protesting them as well because we still see them as part of the crony capitalist corrupt economy that has resulted in four hundred people have as much wealth as one hundred fifty four million not because they're smarter or work harder but because they are politically connected and essentially bribing through campaign donations the the tea party is not our alternative we don't see ourselves we when we started this six months ago we started organizing in washington d.c. six months ago for this before the occupy movement and wall street store we embraced and supported the occupy wall street but we started earlier because we saw a need to find a way for citizens to develop our our goal is to shift the power of the people and corporate rule corporate rule does affect the cost of college corporate rule doesn't put our students in the greatest debt they've ever been in they're paying
a college debt that is equal the mortgage i first paid when i got to law school their they had coming into a job market that's absolutely terrible these kids are in the streets because they are being treated poorly by this economy this economy is corrupt except for the top one percent that's what we call it of ourselves the bottom ninety nine percent and in fact we have people from the ron paul movement at our fed at our freedom plaza that because they agree with us on crony capitalism corrupting the economy they agree with us that the empire economy of eleven hundred military bases and outposts around the world is not good for the united states it's not good for our national security it's not going to for sure that it's not good for our economy we need it was one of the power of corporations that's the issue right tony jumpin issue go ahead jump in the issue is that you are not opposed to crony capitalism and by the way who wouldn't who wouldn't be opposed to a break. the law you're opposed to capitalism that's the progress now you're going to do people you're actually wrong about that you think it should just be reading
what about this is what you believe all right do you not only need to look at your own word they're going to just suggest that you be going to raise you're going to go to jason here tony the exact same tories allowed now that makes up stuff ok oh no he's going to. hold the game clearly i mean what am i going to the problem i love i love this concept of cross talk but it's not going to extremes are you jason err i mean if it's for or against capitalism but it's pretty fair to say that capitalism i guess if we can all understand in the same way is not working for a lot of people in the us. that's right it's not true that i completely agree with that if you if you look at if you look at the american social system not just as an economic system as a social system the one key factor here is that our system privileges profit before people again a privilege of profit before people if you look at basic basic statistics you have three and a half million people are homeless you have forty million people that are jobless
you have nearly fifty million people without health care insurance you have another forty six million americans living below the poverty rates and you look at the bank bailouts million dollar bonuses and we have a political system a political system that is bought and sold by wall street all right this is not necessarily about capitalism or non capitalism is about creating a different social system they say it's about capitalism or not capitalism is a false virus a false dichotomy instead it's about creating the it's going overseas within this country as well as around the world as well as around the world that would that that includes people's voices that have been systematically more generalized and excluded from a wider discussion what do we want as everybody's people and it happens to be capital so be it if it happens to be something else then so be that as well it's not about one or the other is about creating something different ok can go ahead they're exactly right what were in the bill. here is the participatory democracy versus concentrated wealth and it's not just in government it's in the economy it's
in the media it's in a lot of major institutions and what we do is we want to see power shift of the people want to talk about democratize the economy that does not mean a non-capital is a commie means people having more control and more influence for example mean more employee owned businesses more employee own co-ops those are still capitalist but they're beyond the big finance capitalism that we currently see this doesn't have a wall street we favor community banks so rather than money being sent to wall street is kept in our community where the people in the community know the community bank to the board and discuss what's the in the key where should investments go we talk about health care health care is something that is because of its expense you can't do it as an individual you know one one prescription could bankrupt you one one one one treatment can bankrupt you you need to have a group system that works and so what we are is evidence based we are not philosophically based capitalist any caps we look at what works and we advocate for what works and we have people working on this and it's not just one person's idea we are practicing this the market size form of decision making in our own in our
own ok if you're patient we go to the get together are we going to bring the money going to tell me or tony there is there is this claim out there that the u.s. government does more for big businesses and corporations bails them out but doesn't bail out the average american so is the government too friendly to corporations and not friendly enough to the average guy. let's take a look at the evidence evidence based as i believe kevin was saying the tea party movement isn't in favor of the bailout so i created websites before obama took office saying no bailouts created videos on the subject there's no such thing as too big to fail you can't go against the free market to save the free market that is a myth you can't spend your way in a prosperity as for kevin's idea about evidence let's talk about the democrats and the occupy wall street movement the d. triple c. the democratic congressional campaign committee has a page on its website a petition to get signatures in favor of occupy wall street you think you're running away from the democrats the democrats are co-opting you they own you they
want to be watching this i mean surely you and they are more and more every single day own has millions why would he listen from that is not a second you want to lose i want us because they see our energy they have speculated on your energy and time little things are the only system capitalism is the only system on the face of the earth that allows people to live to the moments of their happiness nothing else works is it right gentlemen i want to jump in here this is a crazy disease to go ashore here to show you how to ensure the break we'll continue our discussion on the campaign against wall street stay with our team. wealthy british style it's time to write.
welcome back to cross talk time peter lavelle remind you we're talking about the protests against wall street. live. in the first story. ok jason i can go back to you on your website i notice you have a phrase here let your life's goal is to change the world without taking power is this what this movement is doing as well is that their goal. well i'm not entirely sure about that first of all that phrase i borrowed that from another political author by then with john holloway that phrase is popular about five years ago in terms of my political beliefs yes i do think that is an appropriate way to go about political change of the words to change the world without reason scribing certain power structures now i am not here to speak for everyone within this movement but i do think that is a fairly common sentiment to one degree or another with within this movements can change the world without taking power in other words to change society and change the economics change the culture and change our way of life without scribing
particular power structures ok kevin i mean a lot of people look at this movement here and it's very interesting but without any really strong organization how it's going to really achieve what it wants to do i mean there's so many different goals out there and what seems to be more than anything else is just huge discontent but it is certain point you have to organize and get behind certain policies and just move it move ahead and i mean either you make a choice of being a little party or you know be the left wing of the of the democratic party i mean like the analog of the tea party what i'm saying is that the sentiments are out there but where is your traction where do you ultimately kind of get some kind of critical mass. we're not going to ourselves be co-opted like the tea party was we're not going to let a club for growth candidates now call themselves tea party candidates that's what the republican i've done the tea party but we do agree with what tony said the democrats are trying to co-opt us and we are fighting to prevent that we are very clear we'll be independent we're telling you we were saying that van jones does not speak for us he's not part of us electing democrats is not our goal we are starting
to form organizations and this is would be a long term effort our goal is quite clear shift power of the people and corporate rule if people can understand what those words mean then they need to study english a little more closely and a corporate rule shift pair of people what we're doing is developing organization around issues that are affected by that every issues affecting because it's a constant self in all aspects of our allies and we have a lot to untangle there and you know we were doing and we have committees on fifteen different issues that are coming out of there. we discussed in our in our symbolised and discussed online discuss with other occupy moons we're going to help foundation is a movement that we see as a long term effort independent of both parties criticizing both parties independent media be developed to support us and in the long run if we need to we will create independent electoral organisations that challenge both parties but we're not ready for that yet so at this stage we are building and in of a movement that will challenge both parties and telling the democrats to stay out they see a lot of energy with us they see a lot of strength with us they have no energy they have no strength they've turned
off most americans as other republicans they want to try to capture our energy we're not let them do it we're going to stay independent ok tony do you see this movement is an analogue i mean ideologically different obviously in a different on the other end of the spectrum to what the tea party is. well first of all to kevin's point i only hope your object what the democrats are trying to do and the co-opting there is no doubt that when you know the movement started those first few days in september the whole nonviolent conversation was absolutely true and you could see them talking about it it's the people who have decided to jump on board who have those loudest voices van jones michael moore roseanne barr now and a couple others pushing the extremely violent rhetoric and that's what people are see those are good for you if you're rejecting those people i'm absolutely sure the you're rejecting those people when you michael reagan was and are talking about bringing back the good team and seven people to reeducation attorney knows that health care is a comedian a lot of which he's a comedian is. analogous jason to jump to the arab spring go ahead jump in i was
right there for as i believe those are metaphors that i believe those are metaphors bring that audience in is not on how to sincerely say they were here but are you going to do a president ok so they're really thinking about to take out the guillotine if you really believe that they're actually asking us to take back the guillotine do you really believe that of course a yes or no he was you are you believe that you can't write of course not what i mean i can see him now start see who agreed with her no what i'm saying she had who was i said she said she said yes she said to me even back to get in for a while jon stewart's attorneys are comedians ok if you take it very literally they're the people who are coming down so you know he's not saying that he will have you want to be close people away can i go about that i just didn't care if it was national or tim tim what was not funny is people bringing guns to presidential events that's not funny and that was not that was not rhetoric that was reality and the rhetoric of free energy guillotine or even the rich is rhetoric we are if you
look at our front page of october two thousand and four we have a nonviolence plus just anyone who recommends violence we were we've already thrown people out of our of our of our cameraman because they were discussing you know for the back of the police came to a rest of us. we're not interested in that kind of approach we've thrown those kind of people out we are nonviolent within nonviolence the only way to challenge is that the government has so many weapons and we'd be outgunned if we took any approach and we lose a simply that of the american people we're taking a nonviolent approach to push for people gaining power we've studied how this is occurred if you go to the einstein is to read about nonviolence and how regimes change that's the model we're using we're seeking that you know you can really egyptians violence you can really egyptians violence that was part of the junction in egypt and it was my darker you may do mind you mind if i make one more point you keep mentioning egypt being was while the egypt was mubarak and his thugs people defend themselves against that but that was where the violence came from was the regime in power that was going on when we say down there they were always saying no
to that i jason i want to jason a little bit about you jason in philadelphia jason now tell me where you are your thoughts on the coverage of this movement in the united states now because when maybe a small number of tea partiers show up there they get huge coverage expression like on fox but when you have hundreds and thousands of people it seems the coverage is very different or is very dismissive do you agree or disagree with that. well first of all there are a million ways to cover any story. and much of the media at least at the very beginning much of the media was focused on the hippie dippie kids it's the white guys this and that if you go down there actually the occupy wall street movement is a little very less so modest than people think that's the first thing they realize second and then you are saying oh there's no clear message yes there's a very clear message right there's a very clear message that corporate dominance corporate rule must end and we must try to figure out a way to reinstill our democracy that is responsive to the wants and needs everyday people it's pretty clear if you look at the actual movement they then message is
the movement itself the action is the message and only takes a few seconds sit down actually analyze what that movement is about what that action is about it's about occupying space at wall street what is wall street watching is the epicenter of the corporate world again is the epicenter of the cold war both symbolically as well as literally that is why people are there indefinitely as about reclaiming that space is that enough is enough space with alternative practice is very true yes that is the message that's very it's very it's very the message of the message and the other thing the other thing i want to get down about i mean i've been actually pleasantly surprised by the corporate media coverage and we start to over two thousand live in doubt or we emphasize the independent media and if you look at our media page and a lot of independent media covering us we also so that everybody who comes has that consider themselves the media because we believe in democratize we do we teach people how to use their social networks to become a newspaper or magazine we teach because i use their i phones to become a t.v. station to do live streaming so we are trying to build that from the bottom up
a new kind of media but we've been very pleasantly surprised by the media coverage you see from the corporate media something we did not expect and i think what there and what one of the media guys who talk to me that about this i mentioned my surprise about it he said well we're all facing the same kind of stress as everyone else's we're part of the ninety nine percent media shrinking. jobs are being cut. insurance and retirement plans or break. they're being held back they feel like they're under financial stress as well and that's what's uniting this movement and really i would welcome the tea party come and discuss this with us because we're not we don't see ourselves as antagonistic we all are suffering the same economic insecurity anger at the corruption of washington anger at the corruption you have in the larger your view based on well you know one of the you know what i'm saying is that i would discuss an evidence based on what is generally regarded and evidence based way not your shouting style but an evidence based way what really could well see dockery led. the way i had tony raised so i just don't make an
actual man now if we want to talk about evidence based and you want to talk about what you're doing to occupy wall street if you take a look from the outside looking in it looks like a bunch of people who don't care about the land who are willing to abuse the businesses around them and deficit on police cars that's the evidence base that's not the guys not streams get a job that's ridiculous. that is centrally i'm not addressing a crowd and they're all telling language and it's unity and it's only inches wide and it's always a. bit kav is why your shrink you have in your party is not going anywhere if that's what you're talking about it too because it's all i've been saying i was talking and it was getting a word in edgewise it's kind of silly in the republican party to be part of what you're talking about or engage in the conversations about what you're talking about you have to at least be honest about what you're about you're not going to get the tea party to favor a concept where everyone gets paid for doing nothing we don't accept that as a value we believe in capitalism we believe in the free market now what do you see
is what he is saying that government shouldn't get what you are and wall street. and you should keep playing jason jumpin jason go ahead well well first of all first of all do we actually live in a free market society the last time i looked as though it was that you were just corporations of the richest banks on the face of the planet they were getting bailouts so it's communism for the rich and capitalism for the poor we do not live in a free market society that's a myth right and sort of we've never living under the sun reports and i say this on the there's always privilege of the rich all right tony do you agree or disagree with that. do i agree with the conversation about class warfare of course not do i believe that people should go away are they really my do i believe in crony capitalism and breaking the law of course not do i believe that corporations employ millions of people and give them a better way of life yes i do ok jason i want to go to you where almost out of time is this really a test of democracy in the united states because we've talked about capitalism but it's about participation isn't it yes one hundred percent i would say although it
is moving as a rejection of corporate dominance it's also an embrace of direct democracy people have a deep political desire to actually participate and democratic decision making process it's about direct democracy and that reclaiming our democracy redefining our democracy re practicing our democracy in a way that a response of to each of our wants needs and desires ok and we tony let me give you the last twenty seconds go ahead. the problem there is that we are not a direct democracy in the founding fathers knew better we're a constitutional republic and that way we don't have mob rule we can change unless i change again that's a measure change the system of an occupied change just as you guys got to figure out one out all right gentlemen we've run on our very severe abuse for sake you very much but we've run out of time many thanks to my guest today in philadelphia washington and in los angeles and thanks to our viewers for watching us here r.t. see you next time remember cross talk rules. and
if. you want. a very warm welcome to you this is your news today protesters on the. street they have to. leave these intensely to try to get the status of the human experiment is exploding with. this and this means what it knows was allegedly trying to make sense of global economy and it's all came things as financial templates for the research clambering to maintain
a confidence in markets and think you don't want to be seen trade imbalances risk to keep even close to collapsing in some time alone for close. to fail switchblade banks again feel a little like think is the u.s. crash in seven and. feeling. just like ultimate in the classes and in streaks the i.m.f. spokespeople just programs increase the total economy. the news today violence flared up. and these are the images the world has been seeing from the streets of canada. trying to corporations room today.
american investigators claim to have uncovered a close links to graunt to assassinate the saudi ambassador to the u.s. american attorney general eric holder says the u.s. is committed to holding iran accountable but to one hundred journalists accusations . free up to find good as opposed to these are announcing that the soldier gilad shalit is to be freed in exchange for one thousand but it's genius to do with hamas . on the ukrainian border confidant of seven years sentenced to the country's in a prime minister's sponsored punches and a flood of criticism from the drive in the new russia united to mushroom car was found guilty of abusing alcohol one signing and the contract someplace you can't get in the. next in the program because they were pulled. which was the font some of the states to give you the news wall street would prefer you didn't. either.